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johnnie Posted - 12/17/2004 : 11:38:53 AM
Folks,

I have sat on this information for a few months, but Jana's post on the Lost Cherokees sent me over the edge.

Stevie, are you listenin'? This is in your backyard.

Last year the Indiana State legislature passed the Native American Indian Commission bill. Due to the work of three native women, Sally Tuttle, Debra Haza, and Rebecca Martin, as well as other native women, including my wife, Leann, the Commission came into being.

The Indiana Commission is composed of sixteen members, eight appointed from various state agencies, and eight "Indians" from the various regions and tribes in Indiana.

Indians 5, Wannabes and non-Indians 11.

This is what happened. Only two Indian women were appointed to the Commission, and only one of those is a "real Indian." The other woman is a "lost Shawnee" or some such tribe. The chairman, one Brent Gill, is a sherrif or Marshall of the Southern Cherokee Nation. He came by his "Indian blood" according to a news source, when he heard the water running in a spring fed stream. I kid you not, it was in the paper so it must be true.

There are other Indians on the Board, a total of five of the sixteen seats are held by people who are part of the Indian community. The other eleven are either non-Indians or cosmic Indians.

Stevie has problems with the commission and I agree with some of his logic but, hey, right now it is the only dance in Indiana. Meantime, this Gill character has stopped all communication from members of the Indian community with members of the Commission. No commissioner is allowed to communicate unless it is "through channels," meaning the marshall of the Southern Cherokee Nation, hiz honner,' Big Chief Gill.

The story gets worse because the local Indian Center in Indiana is run by a board of Directors where the principle officers are, you guessed it, two men with spurious and undocumented claims to Indian blood. Now, the only two avenues of expression for Indians in the whole dang state of Indiana are controlled by what I call "cosmic Indians."

They became Indians when the brooks gurgled "you are Indian my forest child, go forth and teach others this message." What a crock.

Johnnie
30   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
~Robin Posted - 09/29/2006 : 10:42:56 PM
For a very talkative person, I have only this to say, Johnnie's real and for real.
johnnie Posted - 09/29/2006 : 09:17:33 AM
Frybread,

Am I real? Not sure of the implications of that question since there is currently a campaign to smear me headed by the chairman of my tribe and his paid hacks.

"Am I real and what constitutes real" What, you been reading Kirkegaard and don't understand it?

Want me to analyze your moniker? Someone comes on here, a newbie, and uses a generic "Indian name" to pose circular questions? My immediate suspicion is that you work at 1601 Gordon Cooper Drive in Shawnee and your paycheck has Rocky Barrett's signature on it.

If that is not true, and you can tell me who you are, then we can talk. Otherwise, smear away, but be prepared to defend your allegations.

Johnnie
thunderbeing Posted - 09/29/2006 : 04:34:37 AM
.....Johnnie, I dont think it would be appropriate, 4 me to comment on this issue...BUT your term " cosmic indian" is the most accurate dead on description 4 nailing a label on my frustrations with new agers we deal with out here...thanks, and my best hopes for the outcome of your problem....^^^^T.
Grammak Posted - 09/28/2006 : 9:18:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by FryBread

LightEagle looks like he is talking a little truth here. Johnnie looks like all he is out to do is just insult people and divert attention. Johnnie, here is a question: Are you Real? And what do you constitute as real?



Yes, Johnnie's Real. Read a few of his posts and you may get a feel for how much he cares about what happens in Indian country.
ArikaraDiva Posted - 09/28/2006 : 5:31:05 PM
I was reading this thread from the begining and all of the claims of William Braford realy got to me so I started to do some research. For those of you who don't know Mr. Bradford resigned from his law school professorship amid accusations he made false statments on his resume regarding his military honors. Mr. Bradford was holding himself out as an "American Indian War Hero" who was being punished for not signing a faculty petition supporting,of all people, Ward Churchill. I didn't find any articles attacking his claims of native ancestry and supposidly he is, or was at one time, a judge at Ft. Sill. Anyway, google "professor William Bradford" and it's all there. Hopefully some of the members he wrangled with will feel vindicated.
acomabrown Posted - 09/28/2006 : 3:51:24 PM
are you serious..wheres incoming baby when you need him? lol
FryBread Posted - 09/28/2006 : 12:05:36 PM
LightEagle looks like he is talking a little truth here. Johnnie looks like all he is out to do is just insult people and divert attention. Johnnie, here is a question: Are you Real? And what do you constitute as real?
E.Y.Y. Posted - 09/18/2006 : 4:41:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by johnnie

Hmmm, "lighteagle?" Is that a Cherokee name. Might it be "Eagle of Light," or mayhaps has to do with the weight of the eagle? In which case a "light eagle" would be one that cannot hunt?

Jess Askin



@johnnie. I figure hes a Philadelphia Eagles fan. They
was playin real light yesterday....jess sayin....

johnnie Posted - 09/18/2006 : 11:52:27 AM
Folks,

Saw this thread change this am when I checked in. So I changed the name and will withdraw.

I will not comment on it, up to the Cherokees to argue with Mr. Lighteagle.

Hmmm, "lighteagle?" Is that a Cherokee name. Might it be "Eagle of Light," or mayhaps has to do with the weight of the eagle? In which case a "light eagle" would be one that cannot hunt?

Jess Askin
johnnie Posted - 09/18/2006 : 11:47:58 AM
Boy,

Some things have long legs. Some things have changed in the nearly two years since this was originally posted.

The Commission is headed by Brian Buchanan, who is Chief of the Indiana Miami andlegimately so. The other thing is that Indian people here have no say over who is appointed to the Commission.

We have repeatedly tried to get Native women appointed to the Commission with no luck.

And, Dark Rain Thom is no longer claiming Remnant Band Shawnee, but is claiming to be "East of the River Shawnee," which means about as much as a sieve full of water.

Things will change. The Indian Center still is run by non-Indians on the board and that will change eventually. Leann worked her butt off in the first days of the Commission to try to get the state to look into giving a quarter million dollars in funds to a non-Indian group but of course, she was nishnabequa and that means nothing to these ten cent warriors who run the Indian Center.

As for the Southern Cherokee? The folks on this board can handle all that but there is IMHO almost no chance they will get federal recognition either in Indiana or in Oklahoma.

but I could be wrong.

Johnnie
ndnadonis Posted - 09/17/2006 : 4:18:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by johnnie

Folks,

I have sat on this information for a few months, but Jana's post on the Lost Cherokees sent me over the edge.

Stevie, are you listenin'? This is in your backyard.

Last year the Indiana State legislature passed the Native American Indian Commission bill. Due to the work of three native women, Sally Tuttle, Debra Haza, and Rebecca Martin, as well as other native women, including my wife, Leann, the Commission came into being.

The Indiana Commission is composed of sixteen members, eight appointed from various state agencies, and eight "Indians" from the various regions and tribes in Indiana.

Indians 5, Wannabes and non-Indians 11.

This is what happened. Only two Indian women were appointed to the Commission, and only one of those is a "real Indian." The other woman is a "lost Shawnee" or some such tribe. The chairman, one Brent Gill, is a sherrif or Marshall of the Southern Cherokee Nation. He came by his "Indian blood" according to a news source, when he heard the water running in a spring fed stream. I kid you not, it was in the paper so it must be true.

There are other Indians on the Board, a total of five of the sixteen seats are held by people who are part of the Indian community. The other eleven are either non-Indians or cosmic Indians.

Stevie has problems with the commission and I agree with some of his logic but, hey, right now it is the only dance in Indiana. Meantime, this Gill character has stopped all communication from members of the Indian community with members of the Commission. No commissioner is allowed to communicate unless it is "through channels," meaning the marshall of the Southern Cherokee Nation, hiz honner,' Big Chief Gill.

The story gets worse because the local Indian Center in Indiana is run by a board of Directors where the principle officers are, you guessed it, two men with spurious and undocumented claims to Indian blood. Now, the only two avenues of expression for Indians in the whole dang state of Indiana are controlled by what I call "cosmic Indians."

They became Indians when the brooks gurgled "you are Indian my forest child, go forth and teach others this message." What a crock.

Johnnie



Welcome to the club....ditto for Tennessee.

L
swrussel Posted - 09/17/2006 : 12:11:53 PM
The phrase "bogus Southern Cherokees" is way redundant.

Steve
littlecrow Posted - 09/17/2006 : 11:53:45 AM
HomeGrown Posted - 09/17/2006 : 11:50:02 AM
littlecrow Posted - 09/17/2006 : 10:16:07 AM
Well Weylin may wanna introduce yourself here...If not they gonna blast ya then ya get to meet incoming baby..
Weylin Lighteagle Posted - 09/17/2006 : 09:48:16 AM
Osiyo: Concerning Brent Gill and family and the REAl legal Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma. I thought this may help you all out who are trying to wade thru the bs of the Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma. Over the past couple years there has been a lot of corruption going on within the Southern Cherokee government and thousands of dollars were taken by a phoney imposter named Gary Wayne and about 6 or 7 of his cohorts. There has in the past 14 months been a series of federal prosecutions of these people, in Federal Court in Oklahoma, Muskogee, and in South Bend Indiania. Some two months ago the Griggs family were prosecuted in South Bend and found Guilty as hell on some 74 counts of fraud, all felonies. The four of them are to be sentenced next month , and Roger Griggs is facing up to 200 years in Federal prison, his wife about 95 possible years, and two other members of their family 10 to 21 years. Brent Gill is a white attorney with no proof of blood at all who was appointed by con man imposter now banished forever ex Chief Gary WAyne Ridge to be the Chief Justice, along with his brothers and cousins and all the Gill kin people they could muster up to keep crook Gary Ridge in power. All the crooks have been banished out of the Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma tribe, and are now being investigated and systematically prosecuted by the US Justice Dept, and con man Gary Wayne Ridge and his wife are going be arrested and charged with some 700 felonies later this year along with one Judy Gunier who had been appointed treasurer and helped scam off some 300 grand out of the tribal building funds. The Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma has reformed it government this past year and has filed a letter of intent for Fed RECogniton- and their rights under some 8 provisions under the 1866 treaty with the Cherokee were deemed by a Federal Court Judge as Totally Legitmate as a seperate tribe from the now CNO or UKB, whose rights have never been abrogated, though signed and agreed to , had yet never been honored and still pending. Brent Gill is scared poopless that he and his bunch of family members may be prosecuted as well, and does not have anything to do with the Southern Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. THough there are several groups claiming to be the Southern Cherokee Nation in different states , and several claiming to be the Southern BAnds of Cherokees, they are all bogus and not the ones on the 1866 Treaty. Gary Ridges old Southern Cherokee Nation website is still on the web showing him as chief of the SCN. because the Federal Courts have also been using it as part of an evidence trail in various court trials, and The FBI suggested that the real Southern Cherokee tribe not have it removed for now. There have been several Federal law enforcement raids over the past recent months such as one in Louisania where Southern Cherokee Nation membership cards were being sold for 25 dollars a piece to anyone who had the money, and the funds were then funneled back to Gary Ridge , who has been banished for months and going to be indicated later on this year. Some ten thousand id cards were confiscated and 19 grand in cash in this recent raid. Hundreds of thousands of id cards have been sold fraudulent that are completely worthless as to tribal membership legal. I was told by a rep. of the real Southern Cherokee Nation tribe that currently there are only 150 members of their tribe , and that probably there is only about perhaps 150 more people in the US that can qualify and document their lineage to that tribe's direct blood ancestors, and that they are still cooperating and assisting the Bia, FBI, US POSTAL Inspectors, US Marshals , and Washington DC officials to bring these last 5 or 6 criminals to justice. THe real legal Southern Cherokee Tribal address is PO Box 581 Webbers Falls Oklahoma.
Wesa Posted - 12/06/2005 : 08:05:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by BaloneySkin



William C. Bradford
Assistant Professor of Law
Dean's Fellow
Grimes Fellow

Indiana University School of Law - Indianapolis
Lawrence W. Inlow Hall, Room 322
530 W. New York Street
Indianapolis, IN 46202-3225

Phone: (317) 274-4884
Fax: (317) 278-3326
E-Mail ID: wibradfo Send to: @iupui.edu
Education
B.A., 1988, M.A., 1992, University of Miami
Ph.D., 1995, Northwestern University
J.D., 2000, University of Miami School of Law
LL.M., 2001, Harvard Law School
Courses: International law, federal Indian law, property, national security/foreign relations law, laws of armed conflict

William C. Bradford joined the faculty in the fall of 2002 after serving from 1990 to 2001 in the U.S. Army infantry. Professor Bradford also served at the War Gaming and Simulation Center, National Defense University, Fort McNair, Virginia, and was an advisor to Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff Shalikashvili.

A summa cum laude graduate of the University of Miami School of Law, where he served as project editor of the University of Miami Law Review and was a member of the Order of the Coif, Professor Bradford is the author of numerous law review articles on international law, the laws of war, and federal Indian law.

Professor Bradford is a frequent commentator in local and national media on laws of war issues regarding Iraq and the War on Terror.

His memberships include the American Society of International Law, the Native American Bar Association, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Carmel Chapter. He is one of fewer than fifteen tenured or tenure-track academic legal faculty members of American Indian origin in the U.S.

In 2004-2005, he was named a Dean's Fellow in recognition of scholarly excellence.


Recent Activities

Professor Bradford was appointed the United Nations Ambassador from the Miami Tribe of Indiana. He recently lectured and conducted training for the JAG attorneys of the US Army's 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) on the Laws of Armed Conflict at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. His article," In the Minds of Men: A Theory of Compliance with the Laws of War," was accepted by the Arizona State Law Journal and a second article, "International Legal Compliance: Surveying the Field," has been accepted by the North Carolina Journal of International Law. Bradford was also interviewed on NPR about the role of foreign policy and the war on terror in the upcoming presidential election. He was nominated for the 2003-2004 ABA Law Student Division Annual Henry J. Ramsey, Jr. Award for Diversity. In the spring of 2004 he advised the defense in the case of U.S. v. Samir Al-Hussayen, a criminal case brought under the material support of terrorists statute, 18 U.S.C. 2339 in Boise, Idaho. The defendant is a Saudi student accused of using his web sites to provide "material support" to terrorists. Bradford was also awarded a contract for a casebook entitled The Laws of Armed Conflict and International Humanitarian Law (2005 est.) by Carolina Academic Press. His recent article, "The Duty to Defend Them: A Natural Legal Justification of the Bush Doctrine of Preventative War," will appear in the Notre Dame Law Review. Another article, "Beyond Reparations: An American Indian Theory of Justice," is slated to appear this Fall in the Ohio State Law Journal.


That Linky Dinky



Ho Ho Ho,,

This boy is full of somethin',, ennitt..?

Lol..

Well, has anyone contacted the Miami to ask if they would claim him? Or the Apache? I got a few friends down Chattanooga town that are Apache.. mebbe i'll ask them what they know..
swrussel Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:07:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jana

quote:
Originally posted by swrussel

I would like to say to my friends and my enemies on Indianz that this is an example of what chaps me about screen name anonymity.

This person could be Mr. Gill, for all I know.

On this thread, I am identified as a real person in meatspace in Indiana, as is Johnnie and Bill Bradford. We are all enrolled--myself Cherokee, Johnnie Potawatomi, Bill Ft. Sill Apache. So, being who we are where we are, we have a dog in the fight. Johnnie more so because the Potawatomi have ties to Indiana. Bill and I are what are commonly called "urbans"--outside our historic lands.

Because we have a dog in the fight, readers might want to give us more credibility or less, but at least they know. From the tone of the anonymous poster, I suspect he or she has a dog in the fight, too--but we don't get to see the dog.

Steve




It can be frustrating to respond to those who come forth and attack... when they hide behind screen names... [this I know]... but I have to say this as well... I sometimes wish I had come in here using a *fake* screen name myself... because I have had members google me... look into my nations message boards... ask others about me... pass notes to one another... claim I am less than who I am... and twist and distort things to the point where I don't even recognize myself anymore...

I have to agree with Waman Phalay Hawan in one respect... his words will eventually prove who he is... because when it is all done and over with... BQ and enrollment don't mean jack shyt... it's how a person conducts him/herself in real life...

You say that you and Bill Bradford have a dog in the fight because you are both enrolled... yet you admit that both you and Bill's nations have no ties to Indiana... I think this is a key point you made... Steve...

People from a specific local tend to dimish those who have no ties to the area... (who are basically outsider's that moved to the area due to employment and are enrolled elsewhere)... when a controversy develops in their local...

Hell... I don't even live there and I discount you and Bill for sticking your noses where they don't belong...!!! Tend to your own affairs within your own nations... and let those who need those dogs in the fight work it out themselves... jmho...


Jan








I don't understand, Jan. Both Bill and I have distanced ourselves from the Indian Commission because of lack of dominance of local Indians. Dominance? Representation!

Anyway, yes, we stick our noses in by refusing to play a game rigged against the locals.

And then you criticize us for sticking our noses in?

Please explain the criticism so we can learn how to conduct ourselves.

Steve
danny moon Posted - 01/04/2005 : 04:01:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by swrussel


This person could be Mr. Gill, for all I know.

Steve



Definitely pro-Gill at the least.

I agree with the rest of your post also Steve. This Waman Phalay Hawan has me nostalgic for William Bradford.

And just wondering to nobody in particular, since when did "Professor" become an insult?

Daniel

swrussel Posted - 01/03/2005 : 2:17:11 PM
I would like to say to my friends and my enemies on Indianz that this is an example of what chaps me about screen name anonymity.

This person could be Mr. Gill, for all I know.

On this thread, I am identified as a real person in meatspace in Indiana, as is Johnnie and Bill Bradford. We are all enrolled--myself Cherokee, Johnnie Potawatomi, Bill Ft. Sill Apache. So, being who we are where we are, we have a dog in the fight. Johnnie more so because the Potawatomi have ties to Indiana. Bill and I are what are commonly called "urbans"--outside our historic lands.

Because we have a dog in the fight, readers might want to give us more credibility or less, but at least they know. From the tone of the anonymous poster, I suspect he or she has a dog in the fight, too--but we don't get to see the dog.

Steve
johnnie Posted - 01/03/2005 : 2:10:10 PM
Waman,

Or whomever you are? I must confess in my old age I thought you were one of them Wayans brothers when I first read the name. I do not keep up with movies and hip hop, so I apologize for wondering at first why a Black movie star would want to engage me about historical Indian issues.

So you know Gill? Tell him that our concern is not with getting my wife appointed to the Commission. It is however about getting him to loosen up his fascist tactics of not allowing debate, shutting off concern over issues that are legitimate Indian issues. If you go back and read my posts in total about this issue of Wannabees, it is family that I have hammered on, not CDIB's.

If you are Indian you are part of a family, pure and simple. Take Stevie R., and I apologize to him for using him as an example. If I might be so bold, Stevie takes a view of the world that is rooted in his Indian experience. Growing up, he was around Indians, they were part of his life, they cooked for him, cleaned his crappy diapers in some cases, molded him at an early age. Getting a card was just a part of the experience of growing up in an Indian community. There are other Cherokees who might disparage his blood degree, or his view of political or social issues, but they cannot take away that he is part of an Indian family who shares in some part their experience of Cherokee history. The card is just a card, and as I said, if you want to disparage what I say, that is fine, we can engage in debate about this important issue of who is or is not an Indian.

The Indian Commission will have to confront the issue of who is an Indian when deciding who can or can not participate in state sanctioned visits by medicine people into the prisons, just as a for example. This is not an issue that I have raised, only one that I think I can engage in. I have the right to do that. Even if I do not have a card, I can prove my relationship to families who were forced out of Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Michigan. I can point to places in those areas where my ancestors lived and died. I have cousins who do not have cards, or who have cards from other tribes. They too can engage in that debate, with or without a card. The reason they can be involved in that debate is that they too are part of those familes, which is what being Indian is ultimately all about.

As for the Miami, they too have cards. Not only that, they have cards that are generated for individuals because those individuals are part of families who can prove that they are part of a community of Miami. They share a common history. If Mr. Gill had said, "Look, I think I might be Indian, and it might be Cherokee, but I think I have something to contribute with my talents as a lawyer." People would have at least partially accepted him until he proved himself.

If he had said that he wanted people who were Indian to take the lead, and that Sally and Debra not being appointed to the Commission was a travesty, then Indian people are forgiving for someone who might be connected taking a position in our favor.

Instead, Mr. Gill shows up with feathers hanging, spouting about a card we know to be bogus, as does many federally recognized Cherokees, and then proceeds to attack the women who might make the Commission what it could be but for people like him. Horning in, telling Indian people, members of Indian families, how much more Indian he is than everyone else.

"Get thee behind me Satan."

Look, as my wife said on another thread. An Indian who breathes in, and then exhales with the Indian language on his or her tongue, is committing a purely political act. Mr. Gill and wannabees do not understand even the merest of what that means. They are willing to put on feathers, but they are not willing or able to take on our history. They are willing to "become" Indian, but try as they might, they cannot become a family. Card or no card, we are families, clans, tribes, and you can fake a feather, or fake a tribe, but you cannot fake a family.

Johnnie
CaseynGeneva Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:52:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Waman Phalay Hawan



Tatanka Ohitika,

You will know me soon enough. Would your knowing my blood
make-up change the way you read my message? Am I African American,
Latino, Norwegian, Asian or Arabic?

Put any of these categories into the blank. What does it say
about your respect for all peoples if your view of credibility
is based on the color of my skin and not the content of my
message or my character?

-- Waman Phalay Hawan

It matters in this case because the subject has to do with what is best for the Indian community.

If a white person emerged out of the woodwork, speaking out on what's best for the African American community - you wouldn't be curious about that person's knowledge and connection to the African American community? Only their words would matter?
earthw7 Posted - 01/03/2005 : 12:05:57 PM
So you are not Native why are you on a native board? Plus if you are proud of who you are why not put it in your profile? I check profile to see if thay are Native first.
Waman Phalay Hawan Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:35:53 AM


Tatanka Ohitika,

You will know me soon enough. Would your knowing my blood
make-up change the way you read my message? Am I African American,
Latino, Norwegian, Asian or Arabic?

Put any of these categories into the blank. What does it say
about your respect for all peoples if your view of credibility
is based on the color of my skin and not the content of my
message or my character?

-- Waman Phalay Hawan
earthw7 Posted - 01/03/2005 : 10:32:23 AM
So who is this person no profile no Indian blood so what is the point?? Just like a wannbe to come in a post and not intorduce themselves.
swrussel Posted - 01/03/2005 : 10:27:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Waman Phalay Hawan


Subject: The Indiana Indian Commission

Professor Johnnie,

I liked your positive thought in part of your 12/17/04 post
where you say "Indians should have more and more women
out front politically." This is a cause that can be lobbied
to the benefit of all involved. I also see from your 12/17
post that the fact that Leann's frends did not get appointed
after their hard work on getting the Commission established
is keenly felt in your household. We are all grateful
for what has been done by these hard-working Indian women.
To strive for such goals as achieving more appointments of
women is worthy of any Indian and scholar such as you.
I would, however, encourage you to continue to advance
these interests without the destructive emphasis you have
chosen in attacking the "Indian-ness" of the Commission's
members.

What puzzles me is that while you are rightfully proud of
your "card" ["I have a card." 12/28/04 post] and, even
though you claim to be in the elite class of cardholders,
you quite generously donate a lament towards the fate of
the Miami in losing recognition. Clearly, these Miami do
not have federal cards, but you direct your ire towards some
Commission members that may be part of communities that,
in your view, are non-federally recognized and presumably
do not have BIA CDIB cards.

As well read as you are on Indian issues, your position
surprises me in its primary underlying assumption that
only the US government can say what constitutes an Indian.
By the logic you have presented in your Emails, an
individual Miami should be "fake" because he or she is
not US certified. Can we have it both ways -- lament
the Miami yet lambast other non-BIA stamped Indians? Where
do Chief Joseph's Nez Perce Band's full-blood descendants
fit into your classification? These Nez Perce Indians were
never recognized by the US. The US chose to recognize
other more cooperative bands of the Nez Perce.

I agree with you as well that there are "cosmic" Indians
that merit scrutiny on their assertions of Indian identity.
Where there are such charlatans, people of courage should
take them to task.

I know Brent Gill and I can assure you that he did not
"discover" his Indian blood while sitting alongside a
gurgling stream nor has Mr. Gill ever claimed to be a
"Sherrif [sic] or Marshall [sic] of the Southern Cherokee
Nation." [per your 12/17/04 post]. In your position
as a professor, I do not need to stress the importance
of having your facts aligned correctly before making
shrill comments that serve no purpose and can be
easily refuted.

Where individuals such as Mr. Gill grow up in white
communities living the uninvited consequences of
racism because of their parents' dark skin because
of their Indian blood, is it productive for the rest
of the Indian community to ridicule contributions
by those same individuals to the Indian community
in advocating the needs and concerns of like-minded
people? None of us have the luxury of selecting
our parents. I suggest that you attack something
that can be modified -- Mr. Gill's methods or Mr. Gill's
application of Robert's Rules. In view of Mr. Gill's
many and varied works on behalf of Indians, as well
as his Indian parentage, he deserves more than the
attempted ad hominem assault that carries your moniker.

We all accept the fact that a 1/2048th blood Cherokee
Nation citizen that carries the BIA certification is
"Indian" whether that individuals grew up in Tahlequah
or not. (Currently the smallest fraction blood quantum
in the Cherokee Nation per Professor Circe Sturm.)
Numerous Indian Nation citizens, for example, live
in California never having been among their parent
communities. The issue of blood quantum and cultural
"purity" burns up reams of paper among the Indian
community to what gain? Mr. Johnnie, I challenge you
to attend the next meeting of the National Congress of
American Indians and ask for a show of hands of how many representatives are attending that do not have CDIB cards
OR ask for a show of hands of how many are members of
non-federally recognized groups of Indians. If you
assumed these phenotypical Indians were all card-carrying
US-BIA-blessed Indians, you'll be in for a surprise.

If your apparent passion for destructive politics is a
habit that you find too pleasurable to modify at this
point in your life, I would at least suggest that you
collect facts, rather than gossip, in any future efforts
disparage your fellow Indians. Look for a higher road
in lobbying for appointments for your friends. Observe
the level of respect that Martin Luther King, Jr. gave
his non-African American enemies as well as his fellow
African Americans that vigorously opposed his activism.

If you do choose to take a more constructive tack with
your politics, I can't guarantee that your lobbying
efforts will ultimately succeed in getting your friends
and family appointed, but you will at least gain the
respect of some of the rest of us that are repulsed
by the racialist, blood politics foisted on Indians
by the US government since the US's inception that some
within the Indian communtiy take obvious delight in
perpetuating.

-- Waman Phalay Hawan



According to the Hoosier Times-Herald, Mr. Gill claims to be a tribal judge who hears ICWA cases. There are two problems with that. Less important, he claims to be Chief Justice of the Southern Cherokee Supreme Court, and that would be a court of last resort. More important, the Southern Cherokees are not a federally recognized tribe and therefore are not covered by ICWA.

They are also currently fussing in Oklahoma about bogus license tags, threats to build a casino. It also says on their website they are federally recognized.

How far do you have to go to prove fraud?

Steve

Edited to untypo ICWA, which came out IGRA, and they are not covered by IGRA either.
Waman Phalay Hawan Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:36:25 AM

Subject: The Indiana Indian Commission

Professor Johnnie,

I liked your positive thought in part of your 12/17/04 post
where you say "Indians should have more and more women
out front politically." This is a cause that can be lobbied
to the benefit of all involved. I also see from your 12/17
post that the fact that Leann's frends did not get appointed
after their hard work on getting the Commission established
is keenly felt in your household. We are all grateful
for what has been done by these hard-working Indian women.
To strive for such goals as achieving more appointments of
women is worthy of any Indian and scholar such as you.
I would, however, encourage you to continue to advance
these interests without the destructive emphasis you have
chosen in attacking the "Indian-ness" of the Commission's
members.

What puzzles me is that while you are rightfully proud of
your "card" ["I have a card." 12/28/04 post] and, even
though you claim to be in the elite class of cardholders,
you quite generously donate a lament towards the fate of
the Miami in losing recognition. Clearly, these Miami do
not have federal cards, but you direct your ire towards some
Commission members that may be part of communities that,
in your view, are non-federally recognized and presumably
do not have BIA CDIB cards.

As well read as you are on Indian issues, your position
surprises me in its primary underlying assumption that
only the US government can say what constitutes an Indian.
By the logic you have presented in your Emails, an
individual Miami should be "fake" because he or she is
not US certified. Can we have it both ways -- lament
the Miami yet lambast other non-BIA stamped Indians? Where
do Chief Joseph's Nez Perce Band's full-blood descendants
fit into your classification? These Nez Perce Indians were
never recognized by the US. The US chose to recognize
other more cooperative bands of the Nez Perce.

I agree with you as well that there are "cosmic" Indians
that merit scrutiny on their assertions of Indian identity.
Where there are such charlatans, people of courage should
take them to task.

I know Brent Gill and I can assure you that he did not
"discover" his Indian blood while sitting alongside a
gurgling stream nor has Mr. Gill ever claimed to be a
"Sherrif [sic] or Marshall [sic] of the Southern Cherokee
Nation." [per your 12/17/04 post]. In your position
as a professor, I do not need to stress the importance
of having your facts aligned correctly before making
shrill comments that serve no purpose and can be
easily refuted.

Where individuals such as Mr. Gill grow up in white
communities living the uninvited consequences of
racism because of their parents' dark skin because
of their Indian blood, is it productive for the rest
of the Indian community to ridicule contributions
by those same individuals to the Indian community
in advocating the needs and concerns of like-minded
people? None of us have the luxury of selecting
our parents. I suggest that you attack something
that can be modified -- Mr. Gill's methods or Mr. Gill's
application of Robert's Rules. In view of Mr. Gill's
many and varied works on behalf of Indians, as well
as his Indian parentage, he deserves more than the
attempted ad hominem assault that carries your moniker.

We all accept the fact that a 1/2048th blood Cherokee
Nation citizen that carries the BIA certification is
"Indian" whether that individuals grew up in Tahlequah
or not. (Currently the smallest fraction blood quantum
in the Cherokee Nation per Professor Circe Sturm.)
Numerous Indian Nation citizens, for example, live
in California never having been among their parent
communities. The issue of blood quantum and cultural
"purity" burns up reams of paper among the Indian
community to what gain? Mr. Johnnie, I challenge you
to attend the next meeting of the National Congress of
American Indians and ask for a show of hands of how many representatives are attending that do not have CDIB cards
OR ask for a show of hands of how many are members of
non-federally recognized groups of Indians. If you
assumed these phenotypical Indians were all card-carrying
US-BIA-blessed Indians, you'll be in for a surprise.

If your apparent passion for destructive politics is a
habit that you find too pleasurable to modify at this
point in your life, I would at least suggest that you
collect facts, rather than gossip, in any future efforts
disparage your fellow Indians. Look for a higher road
in lobbying for appointments for your friends. Observe
the level of respect that Martin Luther King, Jr. gave
his non-African American enemies as well as his fellow
African Americans that vigorously opposed his activism.

If you do choose to take a more constructive tack with
your politics, I can't guarantee that your lobbying
efforts will ultimately succeed in getting your friends
and family appointed, but you will at least gain the
respect of some of the rest of us that are repulsed
by the racialist, blood politics foisted on Indians
by the US government since the US's inception that some
within the Indian communtiy take obvious delight in
perpetuating.

-- Waman Phalay Hawan
soco Posted - 12/30/2004 : 07:07:56 AM
We have a situation here in Tennesse about the same, We have a state divided from the east to the west, as well, our commission is divided, We have one man trying to controll the Indian community politics here and our commission voting system has just colapsed because of corruption.
We also have many Federally enrolled Indians here as well as real decendants, and we have very little representation in our political structure in Tennessee.
We are fighting to have a voice in our politics, But the powers to be, seems to be white or non-indian,We have a commission barely a year old, and we also have a "sunset" clause that the commission will probaly not make make it thru. Sad, But this is happening in many states. Soco
john_mohdom Posted - 12/29/2004 : 7:28:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by johnnie
Once heard that the tribes up northeast say that someone has to have a skin seven thicknesses to be a leader.


heh, I first heard of that attributed to a Haudenausaunee leader (which tribe, I don't remember). In my years in various leadership positions it has certainly rung true for me. I guess it doesn't have to be true if you are unwilling to listen to those you serve.
john_mohdom Posted - 12/29/2004 : 7:24:09 PM
[quote]Originally posted by swrussel
>
Although I now know many people on this board by their real >names, I don't understand the common practice of hiding behind fake >names. How does it control trolls?

Speaking for myself, I try to ignore trolls rather than control them (thus I admit I control my own behavior ). I also can't control them if they want to cause me harm in my job so a screen name lessens (though does not eliminate) that possibility.

Besides, it's the same screen name I use in 99.8% of my public internet posting which I've done for well over a decade...any cyber reputation I've accrued, good or bad, is associated with this screen name and not my family name.

It's also a comment about my being mixed race. A comment I make voluntarily.

There are about as many reasons for and against using 'real' names on the internet as there are posters...I respect most of them expecting many differ from my own.

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